A mess of radical giving, the politics of the purse and not 'eating your own' with J. Bob Alotta

00:00:00: and to try not eat our own.

00:00:03: I think that's really important, who cares if you make a mistake?

00:00:11: Wouldn't I rather work it out with you right?

00:00:14: If wouldn't I'd rather work without with you...

00:00:38: Hey there my anti-capitalist cuties!

00:00:40: It is your favorite rich queer auntie.

00:00:43: Tiffany Kogoremogo returning another episode of What Is This Hot?

00:00:49: mess.

00:00:50: A podcast that chills with fire, feminists from across the globe to have conversations about The fact That the world is hot trash right now.

00:01:00: This week we are diving into our theme which Is a spin-off of the age old hip hop idiom More money more problems.

00:01:08: You know in this capitalist world We cannot Have big conversation Without bringing up the cha ching The dinero The mula The dollar The shilling or the yen.

00:01:20: Okay, so now I'm just clearly naming currencies but you know what i mean.

00:01:24: this is a vibe that i am calling The Coins Cluster where we are getting into the finances of feminism.

00:01:30: y'all

00:01:31: remember

00:01:32: that viral song?

00:01:33: I'm looking for a man in finance trust fund six five blue eyes.

00:01:38: well look that han was honest because like look it's the way of the world and we all know We have to find That financial fuel To keep us going.

00:01:48: And in the case of The Realm that is funding and its cousin who went to private school Philanthropy.

00:02:18: Roaming like this mortal realm.

00:02:20: So, This has been our vibe for ages and then somehow we were connected.

00:02:24: And now I know Bob guys!

00:02:30: And frankly i'm living the dream because i can whatsapp bob.

00:02:33: Okay write that down?

00:02:35: I am living my personal dream but Before you get into all of it let me break down exactly who this awesome person is.

00:02:44: Bob is a veteran movement builder and non-profit executive working at the intersection of technology, communities.

00:02:52: They have been the ED of Australia Foundation that provides critical resources to LGBTQIA plus organizations across the world.

00:03:05: They also served as vice president of global programs at Mozilla Foundation, have been a filmmaker and they are in business building systems coalitions that support community led

00:03:20: futures.".

00:03:30: What I'm saying is, I one hundred percent recommend meeting your heroes and you crushes guys.

00:03:37: Ten out of ten would recommend.

00:03:39: Bob.

00:03:40: Is such a vibe?

00:03:42: so to kick off?

00:03:43: I asked how they ended up in the rooms with the monies that moved around.

00:03:50: So my whole career isn't film And I'm a filmmaker and Concurrently I was an activist and often immediate activists.

00:04:04: right i would do cop watches, or I produced the first online tribunal of atrocities against Burmese women.

00:04:20: In eight, two thousand and ten.

00:04:30: I was the board chair of a beloved organization in New York City called Fierce which is a queer youth-of-color organizing project.

00:04:45: And they were a grantee partner of The Australia Foundation.

00:04:52: To make along story short that Australia had only ever one executive director for its first thirty five years Came up.

00:05:02: a bunch of people told me to apply and I was like, what are you talking about?

00:05:05: i'm.

00:05:05: A filmmaker like.

00:05:06: What do I know about running foundation?

00:05:08: And this is the long way of telling you uh...I didn't know anything about writing a foundation or about philanthropy but um.

00:05:18: But also I did not had a runner organization that run multiple production companies.

00:05:23: Film is a really collaborative art.

00:05:25: Everybody has a role, I had been a facilitator within community spaces for very long time and mediator and a facilitater And have been parts of pretty significant feminist and activist projects.

00:05:42: So it actually parlayed beautifully in running an organization.

00:05:47: Also there was big learning curve But what i can tell you?

00:05:53: It wasn't until six months in till I really understood what philanthropy was.

00:05:57: Right?

00:05:57: Like, I-I understood what organizations were clearly but... ...I was like wait!

00:06:02: What is this bizarre beast of philanthropy?

00:06:06: and then I was like oh i'm running a financial institution.

00:06:11: Anyone who suddenly comes into money or is thrust into world of wealth can attest to how it is such a trip.

00:06:24: Well, damn.

00:06:25: This is wild!

00:06:26: It can be a wild ride entering that world and having that proximity to flows of

00:06:30: cash.

00:06:31: And for Bob it was even more of a whirlwind because where they came from

00:06:39: Like in that really kind-a blew my mind Because with my own very complicated and not particularly effective relationship To money right?

00:06:50: I came I don't really even say working class, I'd say hustler-class.

00:06:56: You know?

00:06:56: Like...I was like off grid for most of my life!

00:07:04: Even have a proper bank account from much of my younger years.

00:07:09: but what i understood is and in the spirit certainly of Australia that it meant to be running an activist financial institution.

00:07:18: I started to develop language and a consciousness around this that what i was doing, was redirecting.

00:07:24: And What we were doing?

00:07:25: Was redirecting disparate flows of capital To moving money from where it purposefully was Where purposely not.

00:07:35: So We all know whether the money is concentrated in The global minority because Of colonization and her modern-day maiden capitalism so like.

00:07:44: This Is no secret.

00:07:46: The concentration of control also informs how the money moves in often inorganic, if that is actually a word and biased ways.

00:07:54: People just want to hang with their squad.

00:07:58: according To one piece of research by the Center for Global Development Donors are more likely to enter country If there already other donors present In That Country?

00:08:14: percent more likely to enter that context, which means the money simply follows their money.

00:08:21: Leaving a decision in certain places built on an age-old principle of partying.

00:08:27: who are going be there?

00:08:29: Donors will go party if cool kids already both in terms of organizations and also just like other donors, which leaves a whole bunch of people outside the club trying to get in.

00:08:42: Look I know there's a lot of partying metaphors In this part but Like i spent the weekend eating my youth And being outside so it is kind Of The vibe right now.

00:08:55: That was A power proposition that had a deep power analysis i would say like a deep awakening for me in the coming to consciousness around.

00:09:07: A history of philanthropy which is you know really quite imperial and colonial many ways and sort of precious.

00:09:19: right around, you know, I'm making air quotes but giving and investing.

00:09:25: And also hoarding wealth like being able to have in the States anyway to be able to tax deductions is a way to hold on your money right?

00:09:35: In these ways.

00:09:36: But what it meant actually to be project... To run a project into stewarded projects sort of grow a project that had such deep historical roots That where You know, poor people tie all the time working class.

00:09:52: People tied up at a time like what it meant to actually kind of run a collective fund or public foundation in that way is different.

00:10:00: and what it means to raise every dollar we gave away?

00:10:03: And then to have radically given them money away.

00:10:05: I think...I understood ALL OF THAT as a political project.

00:10:11: Anyone who has been in The Funding Realm knows that the politics where the money comes from Is ALMOST as intense As the Politics Where Money Is Going.

00:10:20: Cash is a wicked business, and that vibe does not stop just because it's going to be good cause.

00:10:26: A part of being in these spaces isn't getting tripped up by the core capitalism or how money moves into the world.

00:10:40: we live in distorted ways.

00:10:43: Part of what Bob did was infusing their personal politics.

00:10:48: I

00:10:51: understand liberation as, or the verb of liberation.

00:10:59: Of seeking liberation is a technology and deployment of technology.

00:11:08: And so while... So i had always been that nerd.

00:11:13: My filmmaking was also tied to technologies.

00:11:18: And so while I was at Australia, I developed something called the COMSLAPS for human rights defense and... So that was bringing Human Rights Defenders and technologists and healers and artists together around the world.

00:11:33: I went on from Australia to then become the Senior Vice President of Global Programs working at Cross-Movement Purpose.

00:11:48: And then I was at Mozilla for a number of years and left about one year ago, started my own project called Lucid Assembly.

00:12:03: tech earned wealth and I'm in the process of helping remake The Media Democracy Fund.

00:12:09: So, giving you that arc to say that i've now been multiple rooms right with different cultures but an Australia was my jumping into deep end immediately.

00:12:25: it was stunning because what it meant to run an organization.

00:12:29: A, that was so beloved and people had very set ideas of what is in great ways but also limiting way they thought could be right?

00:12:42: So we went from a two point seven million dollar organisation over the course my tenure.

00:12:52: What it what that meant was being wildly uncomfortable, you know in rooms with heads of state With very wealthy individual donors.

00:13:04: right institutional funders.

00:13:06: Right and also To bring a bank of creativity to that too.

00:13:11: Also to imagine well beyond any imposed limitation on who we should be And sometimes self-imposed limitations I had to be stretched in many ways that i am very grateful for even if at times it was really difficult, right?

00:13:30: And and have gone on to continue to get stretched.

00:13:34: Right but also to push.

00:13:36: so both like... It was a provocative situation.

00:13:43: rooms right i could be in like the most radical lesbian separatist room.

00:13:48: In latin america or i can't be at the g seven do you know?

00:13:54: and i needed to have credibility.

00:13:56: all of those spaces right and i think, uh... and for the most part i would.

00:14:02: i think i was successful in that and i thing but thats i think because i grew up In an incredibly robust immigrant neighborhood in New York City, I grew up in Jackson Heights Queens and the Lower East Side.

00:14:18: And then also spent part of my younger years and then in college in Puerto Rico.

00:14:22: so i was in Criogio spaces all The time.

00:14:26: everybody My family is mixed.

00:14:28: my community Was made up of everyone.

00:14:31: there are a million languages spoken both in my house and on the streets?

00:14:36: and I understood that as As rare.

00:14:40: I came to understand that as rare at first.

00:14:42: That was just normal for me, but also it allowed Me a fluidity that i understood.

00:14:47: us Coming with deep responsibility.

00:14:50: what does it mean actually?

00:14:51: To be invited into so many different cultural spaces religious spaces socioeconomic Spaces political spaces and And What is meant to do that With integrity?

00:15:07: and i think that what was very helpful when I had to do it on behalf of Australia, there were such a strong ethos around feminism.

00:15:22: That... Had to be ever-evolving right?

00:15:25: If it's stagnant then as much problem is any other ideology.

00:15:40: knows

00:15:41: about Austria.

00:15:43: To quote one of their reports, founded in nineteen seventy seven the astria lesbian foundation for justice is one of the first women's funds in the world and the only fund solely dedicated to lbtq rights.

00:15:57: globally through grant making capacity building philanthropic advocacy and media communications we support brilliant and brave grassroots activists and artists who challenge oppression and seed social change.

00:16:12: We are leading funder of LBTQIA plus movements for gender, racial and economic justice across the globe.

00:16:21: so

00:16:21: just like a little caveat they're not the only ones who were dedicated solely to this sort of funding now.

00:16:29: but at that time And since its inception, Australia has gone on to fund and support work around the globe expanding the possibilities for those whose work it has supported.

00:16:42: I actually have to say that The International Fund was started in... In nineteen ninety-five at Australia.

00:16:50: It far predates me!

00:16:51: It's just this scale.

00:16:52: Australia had and lived Its global aspirations long before Me.

00:16:57: Actually and in the same way Also, Australia made its first grant to a trans organization as the Lesbian Feminist Fund also in the nineties.

00:17:08: It's not that we weren't global it was really under the radar.

00:17:13: I think that came up at time where you know... The foundation had come out of the closet right?

00:17:22: Like so..it first began really in secret And that was indicative of the time, right?

00:17:28: Like that isn't a flaw of leadership.

00:17:31: That's about what the political context was and so I became ED in twenty eleven.

00:17:39: So we walked into The Obama Years.

00:17:42: You know it is really different Time um...that said i'm not also gonna Not take credit for What We did.

00:17:51: you Know like..I Was hired to bring us Into another generation Of Leadership of programming, of communications and movement building.

00:18:00: I think it looked really different in that era And certainly the fact we were able to raise funds collaboratively was meaningful.

00:18:12: There is a phrase often thrown about there's nothing for Mahalla meaning there's NOTHING FOR FREE.

00:18:19: Funding is no different.

00:18:20: Often it comes with a bunch of terms, conditions and restrictions.

00:18:24: reporting limitations on use wild application processes the blood-of your firstborn.

00:18:30: you know standard stuff.

00:18:32: One report identified one of the worst set of practices of The Grant Making Space Is being overly restrictive refusing to cover necessary costs such as overheads And tying their grants To very specific goals & programs.

00:18:49: Now settle in, I have a chilling story for you.

00:19:01: It was twenty-twenty six and her girl found herself at the conference in need of a stiff one... ...I needed a stiff drink!

00:19:08: No get your mind out of the gutter.

00:19:09: Anyway A Girl Was In Need Of A Stiff One.

00:19:12: it had been long day.. ..in true fun police fashion all hotel bars were closed something about people still being in sessions or whatever Undeterred.

00:19:24: i went to search basement bar Whispers in the sessions of an underground speakeasy.

00:19:30: I descended the stairs and they're sitting at the table.

00:19:32: where?

00:19:33: Builders!

00:19:35: I slipped past them silently, making sure not to alert them to my presence lest they pounce or worse get their money.

00:19:41: friends to cut off my funding... ...I slipped into corner with my chardonnay & listened.

00:19:46: that's when i heard words.. I've heared a lot about what people are working on but don't think thats important.

00:19:52: What these people need to be doing is this.

00:19:55: So let's shift the focus there, aghast somewhere in the distance a wolf howled and an organization drew its last autonomous breath.

00:20:04: There is a lot of control on the purse strings kittens And control comes with a bunch of nose.

00:20:18: I was very shocked like when i first stepped into like formal nonprofit space, how many knows there were.

00:20:25: You know in film the answer is always yes.

00:20:28: you just figure out how to make it happen.

00:20:31: and I understand that when your working its a life or death situation Its very easy To want be more conservative ironically because you don't wanna cause harm.

00:20:49: failure could mean that there's no funding for really critical work.

00:20:54: And so I think we had to relearn A, the role of an intermediary as needing-to be a risk taker So that risks weren't getting taken on the ground and also being understanding.

00:21:10: innovation is tied inextricably to liberation.

00:21:18: Like i said before The politics of grant making are almost as important, As the politics that the grant-making funds.

00:21:25: There's power comes with being a conduit Holding relationship between people and communities.

00:21:32: who can make magic With those coins Because it is possible to disconnect when it comes to the ground level thinking And reality on the ground.

00:21:40: Who has been able to execute vision?

00:21:45: In a report called Too Southern to Fund, more than ninety percent of all Development Assistance Committee member countries civil society support goes to DAC donor domestic CSOs and other global North CSOs.

00:22:00: Meanwhile only less then ten percent go through civil society organizations in the partner countries.

00:22:08: basically The question is Are you global minority enough for this money?

00:22:12: And ninety percent of the time, The answer is

00:22:15: nope.

00:22:16: A quick analysis of this puts it down to a fun combination Of institutional racism and ideas about who has the capacity and the ability To handle money and frankly It's kind of giving eugenics.

00:22:29: but This Is not the science part of the podcast so we're Not gonna get into that.

00:22:34: One of the things that Bob had to think about was the politics of being The one in the seat that had the access to the flows of capital and getting it to the people That needed it.

00:22:43: To do what they need.

00:22:44: it,to Do

00:22:47: I?

00:22:47: Was a young ed.

00:22:48: It was my first time Edie.

00:22:50: i think i did A lot Of Things Amazingly And a Lot of Things that i would do that i have since done really differently you know and so So There are other kinds of pushback, I mean there's all different kind.

00:23:03: that was like maybe cultural push back or institutional pushback.

00:23:09: From our funders.

00:23:11: i understood and this wasn't a solo endeavor at all.

00:23:17: institutionally we were making things happen even if our funders had different intention and that was a political, stealth political act.

00:23:29: So we were all doing that right?

00:23:31: Like I mean, I think...I think we understood that that was our job Right.

00:23:35: um And so We filled out the paperwork.

00:23:38: when did-we said what we needed to say right like uh i think..i Think you know like What how do meet kind of mainstream desires and Mainstream funding desires for what lgbti activism should be, and then to have raccal social feminism in play on the ground.

00:24:04: That's absolutely anti-colonial has a radical view of race and imperialism.

00:24:12: sometimes though language is different.

00:24:17: as an intermediary which I know gets banded around Or like we're less than and I really think that's bullshit.

00:24:26: I really Think that every everything there's an intermediary everywhere And to do that well is Politically very important until the day, we don't need too right?

00:24:40: So so II take that role as a public.

00:24:45: running a public foundation or running in intermediary are being an intermediaries has a very beautiful and stealth act, so I take it very seriously.

00:24:57: According to a beautiful and very colorful and comprehensive AWID report many feminist groups once considered unfundable including unregistered collectives.

00:25:07: those operating in conflict zones and small deeply local actors now have access to funding pathways that simply did not exist when AWID rang the alarm over a decade ago.

00:25:19: feminists should take credit where

00:25:22: This shift

00:25:23: is because of tireless and visionary feminist advocates who are challenging the prevailing logics of the funding system, shifting its modalities.

00:25:33: And building transformative resourcing models from women's funds and feminist funds to autonomous resourcing rooted in community care solidarity an interdependence.

00:25:48: but so So there's, like I said.

00:25:50: There are all different kinds of pushback and then sometimes you just have to take the heat right?

00:25:54: You're just okay!

00:25:56: Like...I think that took a lot hits too.

00:26:00: That was my job And i'll take those hits so maybe my staff doesn't have do or we will take them institutionally so our grantee partners don' t

00:26:12: need

00:26:14: it.

00:26:16: You know, I mean it's a way that felt like we had to operate.

00:26:22: Maybe there were other options but they're the ones... ...I knew how do.

00:26:25: at time

00:26:28: We've heard rumors of all causes.

00:26:30: feminist funding probably gets the least coins That all money is going into pandas or something Even though those little menaces have stopped being extinct for a bajillion years And frankly considering how chaotic are on internet It'a bloody miracle.

00:26:46: they're still around.

00:26:47: But you know what, here are some feminist funding facts.

00:26:51: according to one report grassroots feminist movements and women's rights organizations receive less than one percent of global official development assistance amounting to just four hundred fifty three million out of two hundred and four

00:27:08: billion.

00:27:09: that's billion with a B. only eight percent of private development philanthropy targets.

00:27:15: gender and black feminist movements received between naught point one percent, and no point three five percent of annual grant dollars from foundations.

00:27:26: According to the aforementioned Magical Avid report, fifty eight percent of feminists in women's rights organizations operate on less than thirty thousand dollars while seventeen percent function under five-thousand dollars Zero.

00:27:46: Zip zero, nada!

00:27:49: Just vibes and the grace of the goddess.

00:27:51: So when we say that money is drying up there was barely a trickle to begin with.

00:27:56: The pandas have it all.

00:27:57: It's my hot.

00:27:58: take Well them.

00:27:59: And the anti-gender movement Funding for just the three top global anti-rights actors was twice that of all.

00:28:07: one thousand, one hundred and seventy four surveyed feminist and women's rights organizations combined in twenty twenty.

00:28:15: It is actually hot capitalist trash at this moment.

00:28:18: so I had to ask about feminist funding.

00:28:26: The feminist funding space is false, right?

00:28:30: Like as soon as all of us all over the world are going to be one thing like that's bananas.

00:28:36: Right That's never gonna happen.

00:28:39: and When you're inside that world it so vast It can feel very small too.

00:28:47: don't get me wrong in.

00:28:48: we all know that.

00:28:50: But it's robust, right like it has a world unto itself when you are working outside of that world?

00:28:58: How nobody even knows it exists.

00:29:02: And that's really intense, like for me being in a tech funderspace the feminist funding- Nobody literally... It's wild to me.

00:29:15: we talk about silos all the time but they're so real and So to be.

00:29:20: oh there is.

00:29:21: no We have no consciousness of each other and everybody Sees their world as the World.

00:29:28: And I think you know, we're at a time where people are in so many different echo chambers.

00:29:33: And I Think that I felt that really acutely being in like multiple funding spaces for the first time.

00:29:41: So I just say that there's.

00:29:45: It's.

00:29:46: that's really a bizarre phenomenon That's really true.

00:29:49: You know some super mindful of it but But I think your really asking me to be inside of that space and have an opinion about it.

00:29:59: And I would just say we all deserve a lot more generosity with one another than we tend.

00:30:26: Really, can you blame us?

00:30:28: Look it's a lot to ask but we really should be kind to one another because there is very little kindness out there in the world sometimes.

00:30:39: And... It is completely understandable why we don't.

00:30:44: Because The resources get more and more scarce The World gets more violent the dichotomy between have and not grows ever greater, right?

00:30:57: And also it's concurrently so abundant.

00:31:02: Like for the first time in our lives we have multiple generations of out queer leadership existing at the same time.

00:31:15: We have real relationships that were built over time and continents, and countries.

00:31:22: Like you and I have orbited around each other.

00:31:25: now... You know?

00:31:26: And i'm not trying to call either one of us old but like that's weird!

00:31:31: That's mind-blowing

00:31:33: right?!

00:31:35: We've never lived in the same country or even on the same continent But we consider each other in each others orbit Even if it is a daily relationship.

00:31:47: That's astoundingly beautiful, right?

00:31:49: Like that's never happened before the generation maybe.

00:31:55: Before us or you know like there...that's really incredible.

00:32:00: so I think a responsibility we have to each other is actually be generous with each other and ourselves our strengths and our ability to bend time to our advantage.

00:32:23: These so-and-so's are operating on the same playbook that they have for centuries, right?

00:32:31: For centuries!

00:32:33: So let us not forget that we also have concurrent set centuries worth of technologies of resistance.

00:32:43: We have new.

00:32:46: We have the real tangible relationships that we've built over these many numbers of years.

00:32:50: The deep feminist networks, all the mistakes you get to learn from is ours!

00:32:58: And so we have legacies where we can lean into memories and future that we believe in that transcend this boring at best playbook repression that they just keep reenacting over and over again.

00:33:18: And so I think, I think that's actually

00:33:25: our

00:33:26: kind of feminist birthright is to transcend the narratives that they keep imposing on us and try not eat our own.

00:33:37: like.

00:33:38: i think it really important.

00:33:40: we don't.

00:33:42: Who cares if you make a mistake like really and wouldn't I rather work it out with?

00:33:47: You right.

00:33:48: If wouldn't, I'd rather work It out with you Like if I Do something egregious Wouldn't you Rather call me in Then go deal With the The government like you know they mean like.

00:34:03: And so i think.

00:34:05: But we take power where We can get it and that's very human.

00:34:10: but i Think And we expect each other to be perfect because were so wounded by the imperfection around us or the imperfections imposed on us.

00:34:21: So I think that it happens all of a time and... ...I would love to see you do better

00:34:28: with them.

00:34:31: Gatekeeper for the Guapse!

00:34:34: We have that person who is acting like the sun shines out there.

00:34:37: but It's like, calm down Savannah.

00:34:39: You passed an interview process.

00:34:41: you're not about to get gifted a table at the Met Gala but power even the proximity to it can make us wild out a little bit and when money equals power in so many places its understandable that you start acting a fool after awhile.

00:34:56: I once had a meeting with this acquaintance who During the time we knew each other went from university level.

00:35:02: slash community-based activism to growing up, which is a scam by the way.

00:35:07: Write that down and working for our major funder real big league shit A grassroots organization I was on board of just so happened to get money from this funder And in true conference fashion We set up her face-to-face.

00:35:20: At some point i had lost my wallet and wanted go back into the conference venue To check it.

00:35:25: She told me I was wasting her time and we needed to go.

00:35:28: And then proceeded to wait for it, snap her fingers at me to hurry up.

00:35:35: Woo!

00:35:36: Lord... Lord walk with me.

00:35:39: Oh just walk with Me.

00:35:41: That interaction was two seconds away from turning into a Netflix true crime documentary entitled activated dealing out some social justice.

00:35:52: i Was like

00:35:53: girl.

00:35:54: are you lost?

00:35:55: But anyway, fast forward.

00:35:56: It's been like nine years.

00:35:57: we still have beef granted over something entirely different but the story still stands.

00:36:09: Yeah that's really deep.

00:36:11: I think there is what that one piece of it Like you can't change everybody right?

00:36:14: And people are managing up and all those things...I will say as somebody who has to grant money and raise money So to be a grantee partner I mean, the biggest thing that i'm always so surprised with the exception of when it is.

00:36:34: When you have like people gatekeeping and your like You know this isn't your money right?

00:36:38: Like that's a part.

00:36:40: That's so now.

00:36:41: sometimes It Is but most times its not.

00:36:44: you Know what.

00:36:44: thats the part that's so stunning to me.

00:36:47: We Have To Commit To Being In Honest Relationships With Each Other Right And...and That Means If you're like, I work at an institution that's going to invest in this community or this idea.

00:37:02: Or this geography and we are going to make the those decisions on our own.

00:37:08: then You know who your dealing with?

00:37:10: And if you fall into Our strategy you do it a few don't you Don't?

00:37:15: or look or and i work At an institution supposedly cares about these things, and my fears live in XYZ place because I have to succeed.

00:37:30: And institutionally this is what success means for us which is likely radically different than what success mean on the ground right?

00:37:38: But if i can be honest with you then also you have to be honest.

00:37:49: That perhaps precludes any of that trust.

00:37:51: That's required being built, right?

00:37:54: Sometimes you can build trust by leading with honesty because You don't have trust until your inner relationship and if you're conscious Of where you're living in the power dynamic Right.

00:38:06: so I understand as a funder i have x-power As a grantee partner.

00:38:12: i have y-power as A grantee Partner from The global minority who I can walk into somebody's office in New York very easily.

00:38:22: I still have more power than a grantee partner from the global majority, right?

00:38:25: Like.

00:38:26: i understand that and also vice versa.

00:38:30: if you have access like there are all these... There is not some binary thing of power.

00:38:37: we've had this conversation.

00:38:38: You're like-you have access in particular kind way yet you wear all other hats so it' s very nuanced but wear it on our sleeves a little bit.

00:38:51: the likelihood of some joint decision-making is More possible.

00:38:58: Like.

00:38:59: I think would be very refreshing to be like you say.

00:39:02: You want have XYZ conversation with me funder and i'm only having that conversation With you because i'm hoping, you're giving Me your grant.

00:39:09: And also there's Some beautiful beautiful beautiful funders out There right who?

00:39:15: Have real relationships with people Who can Also Say you tried this thing and it wasn't effective.

00:39:22: So I consider myself pretty self-aware, And i think that part of my sense of my personality has like a little bit of a cynic in it right?

00:39:32: Like...and i think i lean into that whether thats as a new yorker or there's some way that..like My sense of humor....I always understood to be a little edgy whatever.

00:39:45: Then at some point radically come to terms with the fact that I was an optimist, which I felt like really undermined my sense of my edgy self.

00:39:58: Do you know what i mean?

00:39:59: Like it's just... Wait!

00:40:02: What?!

00:40:03: No but actually how could you wake up every day and be creative?

00:40:11: How can you wake everyday try to fight for our people without a sense of optimism?

00:40:21: That's also the point of being queer, right?

00:40:26: Is to imagine how love and live exist in a far more radically brilliant world than you're often presented with.

00:40:44: And I'm saying queer as a value proposition, right?

00:40:50: Which is the choice.

00:40:52: And so why not choose that?

00:40:55: you know what I mean like especially when it's a dumpster fire.

00:40:59: we also come from lots of different lineages people who have made many ways out of no way and make all kinds decisions well beyond the societally scripted.

00:41:16: That is very hopeful.

00:41:18: That's intrinsically hopeful, right?

00:41:20: And that doesn't mean you have your head up your butt but then don't see what going on around.

00:41:24: to You...that means you absolutely See What's Going On Around You and You See How Unintelligent It Is.

00:41:30: and..you Do Better & Think Better & Know Better & Live Better & Love Better.

00:41:35: So I think like this is a moment for Very Radical Transcendent Intimacy And for us to be the smartest versions of ourselves, we create from there and share resources.

00:41:50: We know that resource is time and talent as much as it's currency.

00:41:59: I can't believe... ...that we don't win in this scenario.

00:42:07: The Funding Grind is the hunger games y'all but sometimes you find they are spaces of goodness & power.

00:42:13: Is there enough money out there?

00:42:14: Yes.

00:42:15: Is it going to all the wrong places?

00:42:17: also?

00:42:18: yes, but we soldier on.

00:42:19: The amount of money flowing about is mind-blowing But the narrative that the money is drying up makes It seem like someone unplugged the bathtub and it's all just flowing into nothing But its going somewhere.

00:42:32: And I'm gonna need the tin hat girlies To get to the bottom Of That Conspiracy And I'm going to need the hot girlies, to marry rich and start foundations from their man's money.

00:42:44: To fund The Feminist Movement.

00:42:47: speaking of feminist philanthropy in the next episode we sit with the money as it were and chat to philanthropists.

00:42:54: an inheritor is a Bosch because you know the podcast gotta have some range.

00:43:00: make sure you check out all in the show notes, because you know what?

00:43:05: We are here not just for a fun time but an intellectually stimulating time.

00:43:11: Have to stroke that frontal lobe y'all!

00:43:15: Shout out to the Global Unit For Feminism and Gender Democracy of The Heinrich Bohr Foundation That is hosting this podcast And my mix-and-mastering team Rey and Sheldon For post apocalyptic production.

00:43:30: Thank You also to Cameron Don't Piss Me Off Smith for your dope research and making me look like I have Wikipedia levels of facts living inside me.

00:43:39: Till the next episode, donate to your local shelter teach dogs-to-rob banks for community initiatives or start an OnlyFans to support The Feminist Grassroots Movement because it's all chaos anyway!

00:43:52: And this is not the apocalypse we signed up for.